The Road to Authenticity

Geri Carey shares her journey from business and leadership to becoming a therapist, coach, author, and academic researcher in authenticity. The conversation covers topics such as the transition to online therapy, the impact of AI counselling, the process of being cracked open, and the role of therapeutic coaching. Jerry also discusses the benefits of a person-centered approach in her work and how it has influenced her interactions with her family. This conversation explores the integration of coaching in therapy and the role of person-centered therapy. The therapist's dilemma of when to share information and the use of language and role-playing in therapy are discussed. The conversation also delves into the application of person-centered approach in society and the importance of self-leadership. The guest shares insights from writing a book on the self-led life and offers advice for those considering therapy. The conversation concludes with a focus on taking care of mental health and the significance of trusted relationships.

Takeaways

The transition to online therapy has been accelerated by the pandemic and has both benefits and challenges.
AI counseling raises ethical questions and may not be a complete replacement for human therapy.
Making a career change to therapy often involves a personal journey of self-discovery and a desire to help others.
Choosing a therapeutic modality can be challenging, but it is important to find an approach that aligns with one's values and beliefs.
Being cracked open, or experiencing a breakdown, can be a catalyst for personal growth and change.
Therapeutic coaching combines elements of therapy and coaching, allowing for a non-directive approach to helping clients.
A classically trained person-centered approach in therapy and parenting can create a safe and accepting environment for personal growth and self-discovery.


Here’s the back cover for Geri's book.

Reclaim your identity and start living life on your terms. Own your life; chase your joy. Never outsource your story. Live boldly, authentically, and without regret.
Get clear on who you are and Lead a Self-Led Life®️ this book will help you:
 
·      Achieve absolute clarity on your identity.
·      Direct your life with unwavering certainty.
·      Discover your power, purpose, and peak potential.
·      Unlock therapeutic secrets for self-guidance.
·      Build a life fuelled by your authenticity.
 
Take control and lead your own life. Embrace what brings you joy and live with purpose. Your self-leadership is a power—use it to create a life that's truly yours. 

Geri's LINKTREE:  https://linktr.ee/gericarey


Chapters

00:00 Introduction
00:55 Transition to Online Therapy
06:05 Transition from Business to Therapy
08:26 Choosing to be a Therapist
10:22 Choosing a Modality
13:10 Being Cracked Open
19:48 Therapeutic Coaching
23:01 Impact on Family and Parenting
26:55 Therapeutic Coaching and Person-Centered Approach
29:12 Exploring Therapeutic Coaching
30:38 Incorporating Coaching in Therapy
32:01 The Role of Person-Centered Therapy
32:59 The Therapist's Dilemma
34:25 Using Language and Role-Playing in Therapy
35:24 Therapy as Coaching and Education
37:45 Integrating Different Theories
38:13 The Influence of Carl Rogers
40:06 Applying Person-Centered Approach in Society
43:02 The Importance of Self-Leadership
44:57 The Journey of Self-Discovery
46:21 Writing a Book on Self-Led Life
49:38 Encouraging People to Talk and Change
53:50 Taking Care of Mental Health
55:08 Advice for Those Considering Therapy
58:57 Building a Growth Circle
59:57 The Importance of Trusted Relationships

How to find us: https://linktr.ee/theparadoxofchange

Transcript

Elliot (01:07.254)
background leading to this normality that even we're doing now. 

Geri Carey (01:14.564)
Oh yeah, there's so much in what you've just said, isn't there? Like, yeah, absolutely. And I'm still getting used to that connection online because I really see the value when I meet my clients face to face, especially when I do my work on a Monday in the drug and alcohol charity. I can't imagine doing that online, but then I have some great experiences online with other clients, it's bizarre.

Elliot (01:36.718)
Well, it's interesting. I'll just say, you know, I just leave these things on record and we'll, you know, just, yeah, absolutely. This is, this is, this is the good stuff. No, it all gets edited. Don't worry. Um, no, I was going to say something similar. Actually, there's, uh, I've had a few clients that have been recommended to me and over the course of time, we do, uh, Google meets and skypes and, and I remember when I was in, uh, when I was in training, uh,

Geri Carey (01:41.1)
Oh is it recording? Ah!

Geri Carey (02:00.61)
Yeah.

Elliot (02:06.406)
one of our, I think it was level three. So when I was doing sort of the level three client centers, um, uh, element and some of the, um, tutors we're talking about, it'll never go online. You shouldn't, it'll always needs to be face to face and Jesus Christ, how things have changed in relatively a short space of time, and you must notice the same thing.

Geri Carey (02:10.126)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (02:19.553)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (02:28.1)
Definitely I do and you know, my supervisor was telling me about this. She, I think it was 10 years ago, did some sort of assignment or whatever she did on. I think her research was on just that thing and they said it was ludicrous, you couldn't do this online. So she's had a, yeah, she's had a real interesting time kind of pulling all that out with a little bit of, oh yeah, well, absolutely it happened. So she saw this years ago.

Elliot (02:54.538)
Yeah. And there's, and there's a humbling experience with this because certainly some of the clients that I've worked with, and I've got one that springs to mind. We met at a teal swan event and I've actually interviewed him about six months ago about his experience of therapy, which I thought would be great content to get out there, um, the, the location, there was no way that we could have met face to face, so it became a blessing. So although we were using Skype, not ideal, but that

Geri Carey (03:09.21)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (03:13.53)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (03:20.322)
Yeah.

Elliot (03:24.402)
It just dissolved into immaterial when the relationship had been built. Not that face to face doesn't have any value. It's I, I recognise the value is more important, but, um, good learning experience for me more than anything else.

Geri Carey (03:28.121)
Hmm.

Geri Carey (03:39.752)
Absolutely. And it can still be done, like you say, it's that relationship. It's that, you know, it is that. So I think as long as the, you know, what I find is the usual kind of contracting around, you know, like you did with me then, you know, making sure there's not going to be any disturbances. And yeah, just that. I think it can work really nice. And like you say, that you can reach so many other, you know, different people, like world's your oyster.

Elliot (04:06.426)
I've actually got a few questions planned, but I'm already feeling I need to go off track. And I was, it didn't take long, did it? I haven't even started my first question yet. Hi, hi, Geri No, I was, uh, I was thinking about kind of the whole online thing and, uh, you must be aware, especially as you're practicing, you must be aware of the social media, uh, hints at AI.

Geri Carey (04:18.822)
Hahaha!

Elliot (04:35.79)
counselling and what that's going to bring to the experience of not just individuals, but humanity. We're interacting with, and it's not pre-programmed, AI is machine learning. So what's your thought about that?

Geri Carey (04:37.428)
Oh yeah.

Geri Carey (04:55.38)
That's a really good question. So my thoughts are that I think if somebody wouldn't traditionally, God, I'm gonna go off piece now. Right, I'll try and be as succinct as possible. If somebody... Yeah, so I think that therapy, as we've discussed, can have an interesting reputation. So if someone...

Elliot (05:06.39)
No, good. Let's, don't worry. We can work. I can worry about it in the edit.

Geri Carey (05:21.844)
is accessing therapy in a different way, that means they're getting some sort of help. Okay, so if they're at crisis point and that is intelligent enough to signpost them to the right places, because they wouldn't think to pick up the phone to a person, then I think that could be helpful in that situation. But there is not.

Elliot (05:45.267)
That's a good point.

Geri Carey (05:45.812)
an absolute no replacement in my view, I go all Rogers now on that kind of relational depth that's human to human, it's energy, it's kind of, you know, eyeball to eyeball, whites of the eyes, love metaphor, and you know, that kind of relational depth, but yeah, so that's it really, I think it's down to, and

what a person's view of therapy is. And I think in this fast-moving world, is it convenient for people to have this sort of therapist in their pocket? People just want those sort of solutions, quick fix solutions, don't they?

Elliot (06:23.886)
Yeah. It does pose some...

Elliot (06:29.606)
Yeah, it does. It does throw up some ethical questions and certainly that I, I grapple with, do I run with it myself and stay at the forefront of it and encourage change. You know, you think about the work that we do with our clients. We are trying to prevent the stuckness. I guess it's that, um, uh, challenge that we all face, you know, but AI is here.

Geri Carey (06:35.038)
Oh, yeah.

Geri Carey (06:45.017)
Mm.

Geri Carey (06:53.431)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (06:59.172)
Mm.

Elliot (06:59.682)
Therapy is needed. I think mental health is a state now that most young people today, it's easy just to talk about online to the masses and get some form of validation, but it's not necessarily healthy. That's the problem that I have with it. Yeah. So successful therapist, coach, author, and academic researcher in authenticity.

Geri Carey (07:07.289)
Yeah.

Mm.

Geri Carey (07:17.792)
Yeah, I think that's it. It is that question of moving. Well, it's coming anyway, isn't it? So it's sort of like, yeah, the ethical thing is huge. Definitely know from having a teenager that, you know, AI is interesting, that their attention, they want the sort of quick fixes. So I think, again, it's just the unknown, isn't it? I think it might be, again, if it's, I'm just

Elliot (07:26.571)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (07:47.666)
out with, then perhaps that's useful. But yeah, in terms of that bespoke, unique, personalized, tailored, you know, connection, I don't think that that's possible without knowing that person, without seeing that person. So they're gonna be getting cookie cutter solutions kind of things. Or it might say, can you give me some top tips to deal with stress?

But that's that kind of stuff's available on the internet as well, isn't it? Like, so that's again, that's another box kind of worms. But yeah.

Elliot (08:17.622)
Yeah, there's... I think we need a fortnightly session.

Geri Carey (08:22.692)
That's it. Yes, please. Yeah.

Elliot (08:28.643)
So I was doing some professional stalking on your LinkedIn, you may have noticed. You've got a strong business and leadership background. What on earth made you choose to be a therapist?

Geri Carey (08:36.19)
Ugh, that was just...

Geri Carey (08:45.312)
Right, so I guess I reached the point of... Yeah, oh yeah. I think there's so many different things to this, so, and it's been so therapeutic the last few years because I can only, I've got more insight going back now than I did at the time. So again, it's at the time I just felt...

Elliot (08:48.118)
Do I need to brace myself?

Geri Carey (09:09.856)
I couldn't really cope anymore. So I got to the pinnacle, I would say, at that point of my career was doing really well, senior leadership role at Santander, responsible for a team of people. But I guess what happened to me in short was a big trauma and lots of different things that made me question myself and my ability. And I found it harder and harder to go and work and...

In meetings, I would feel embarrassed. I was suffering from psoriasis, just kind of crept up. And I had a baby as well, late on. Sheesh, you know, there's a big age gap between our children. We've been struggling with fertility. And I was pregnant at 39. And it was a mixture of the sort of confidence and it just all came to a head.

at the end of my pregnancy, I would say. And yeah, just decided that it might be time to, you know, for a bit of a change. I don't think I, so the logistics, I don't think would have worked traveling the length and breadth of the country. Yeah, so just, and a couple of losses just made me completely crack open, I call it.

Elliot (10:22.83)
Re-evaluate.

Geri Carey (10:25.836)
Re-evaluate, yeah, but not really want any connection to the identity I was. So I was completely lost. I knew I wanted something else, but I knew I didn't want to go back to what I was, but I didn't know how to get to where I wanted to be.

Elliot (10:41.09)
And I think that's somewhat of a key takeaway. When we think about the therapeutic process, sometimes we need to allow ourselves to either hit rock bottom or hit a brick wall that you know that you can't continue in that direction any further. So there is some bravery in going, oh, I'm gonna make a big change, but sometimes it's more natural where you just can't. You can't continue in that direction. Something's gotta change. So when I think about your background

uh, leadership and Santander and what, what made you actually choose the therapist route? And this is really important to me because I think we had a chat a few weeks back. So I'm a classically trained client-enthusiast therapist and I believe you are too. And that's, um, I've been, I've been really looking forward to this conversation and I'm desperately trying to make it about me.

Geri Carey (11:26.649)
Yes.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Geri Carey (11:34.148)
Me too.

Geri Carey (11:38.348)
What?

Elliot (11:39.573)
But essentially, what made you choose therapy and why classically trained?

Geri Carey (11:45.08)
because, so again, it's that looking back, I think at 18, I remember being absolutely balled over by human flourishing, all the textbook trainings that we used to do in recruitment, human psychology. I've always, always loved that.

I think I've always been empathic, compassionate, again, it's the hindsight. But I think for me, when I was cracked open, it's the typical story. I went to see a therapist and I've always, and again, sorry, working in HR, I feel like I was as close to doing a therapeutic role as I could have gotten to. I didn't really think it was another option because that was the career that had been, I'm right about this, but chosen for me. That was how I was propelled into

Elliot (12:32.251)
Yeah, yeah.

Geri Carey (12:32.586)
That was my identity. So maybe that was a part of me. Here we go, we've got to get all persons centered. That was me nudging towards those parts. And I made the job work in a therapeutic way as much as I could. So when I saw my therapist, she kind of said after all the chaos at the start, what is it? And she saw something in me, I think it's that. And that again, that relational depth, that...

And then with that curiosity, I started leaning into those little hunches and I ended up thinking about what to do. And I just didn't know that person-centered was even a thing. And so I, yeah. Yeah.

Elliot (13:17.61)
Yeah. Well, there's so many modalities, aren't there? So when you don't know therapy, excuse the expression here, but how the hell do you figure out which one might be suited to you?

Geri Carey (13:29.529)
Unbelievable.

And honestly, and on top of that, then you say, well, what about CBT? What about your DBT? What about, and people are just like that. And exactly, so I didn't know. But I went, I ended up, from whatever happened, the university or whatnot, I ended up having a coffee at Keele University. And you know what? I thought, I like it here. I'm home. And despite thinking...

Elliot (13:53.742)
Alright.

Elliot (13:58.702)
Oh, you went with the feeling.

Geri Carey (14:01.42)
went with the feeling and you know, I left home very early. I started to work very early. I'm not had an academic background. So then that whole, what's this? And that was it for me. That literally was it.

Elliot (14:15.922)
Do you, this, the hairs have just come, I don't know if the camera can see, but the hairs have just come up on my arm. Oh wow, right, okay. So I came out of school with no exam results, just being absolutely transparent and dyslexic, so can't string a sentence together, but with all the modern technology, I can fight with the best of them and there's no restrictions at all. So I've got no problems with challenging academia.

Geri Carey (14:18.974)
Oh, yeah.

Geri Carey (14:27.696)
I don't know.

Geri Carey (14:40.608)
Yeah. Pretty.

Elliot (14:41.858)
But it's not my forte, it's not my strength, my emotional connection and value and recognizing feeling and behaviors is the thing that's more ingrained in a part of me, so to speak. But like you, I went to a local college. So 36 started my life again, literally racing motorbikes, an old fashioned background, very male-orientated.

Geri Carey (14:54.556)
All the yeses, I've got goosebumps now.

Geri Carey (15:06.942)
Oh.

Geri Carey (15:11.713)
Yeah.

Elliot (15:12.034)
And the thought of doing the things that I used to do, I used to wake up with anxiety, I used to wake up with dread, I'll never forget that feeling. And I knew that there was a shift in the making until I lost everything. And with your transparency in mind, I'm sort of trying to do the same thing. But essentially once I'd lost everything, this is back in 2008, 2009, there was the opportunity to rebuild and it was just a...

Geri Carey (15:38.488)
yet.

Elliot (15:41.622)
blessing, an absolute blessing. Life restarted, I went to college, did a bit of photography, did a bit of, well, as you can see, you know, look and feel is important to me, but did a photography course, a Photoshop course, and then I thought, well, I feel connected to people, and there was a level two course in counseling skills. So I did that, and immediately, like you, when you said you sat down at the college and thought, this is a bit of me. Same college.

Geri Carey (15:44.624)
Uh oh.

Geri Carey (15:53.225)
Yeah.

Elliot (16:11.19)
different feeling with different courses, did this level two and immediately felt like this feels like me, I can't put my finger on it. Didn't understand the modalities, but essentially it became the springboard to today, now everything that we do.

Geri Carey (16:28.32)
Yeah. Wow. Oh, wow. And question for you, my podcast. Yeah. And so, no, I, you know what I'm thinking in my rawness. So two things, if for me, and I wondered if it was the same for you, it was almost like my body went, right, you're open now. Have a bit of this, have a bit of that.

Elliot (16:34.954)
Yeah, go for it. Yeah, no please, you take the driving seat, I'm okay with that.

Geri Carey (16:55.268)
have a bit of the other and everything kind of came to me. So that was my first point. Second one was, I think I'd been operating as cracked open for about 10 years and not seeing it, just fixing as I went, fixing, fixing as I went. And thirdly, I think, yeah.

Elliot (17:10.338)
I'm not sure I understand that. So, you felt like you've been cracked open. What do you mean by you didn't, so you felt raw, you felt.

Geri Carey (17:20.664)
I think we talk about the defining moment. Sorry, my apologies. Talk about the defining moment of being cracked open. Yeah, talk about the defining moment of being cracked open as if it's the moment, it's the breakdown before the breakthrough. But I was then thinking, you know what? There is the big moment.

Elliot (17:25.069)
That's all right. No, we've got a bit of a delay, so please carry on.

Geri Carey (17:41.688)
but I've been operating as cracked open for 10 years, just fixing as I went. So I'll try this. I'll try yoga. I'll try, just trying to put the sticking plasters on. I think in those little, yeah.

Elliot (17:52.935)
Oh, I see.

Elliot (17:57.834)
Yeah, and actually that resonates. You know, when I think of being a young man, you know, uh, mental health is, you know, um, men don't talk about mental health. They have opportunities to be vulnerable, but then it's quickly brushed over in a, in a true, uh, rugby tackle way. We know we punch each other on the shoulders and be all right and all those kinds of things, and certainly in the, in the background that I was in. And yes, to your point, there became a point where there was, there was

Geri Carey (18:04.752)
Thank you.

Geri Carey (18:15.245)
Yeah.

Elliot (18:26.802)
moments of authenticity, but it was quickly brushed under the carpet or it didn't work. So I'll go, I'll go train. I'll go and ride a motorbike. I'll go and I'll go to the gym. I'll take up this. I'll take up that in course. They just become sticking plasters over the course of time.

Geri Carey (18:36.972)
Yeah. Yes.

Geri Carey (18:43.372)
Yes, that's it. And I think, yeah, that's exactly it, isn't it? So that, I think that's the main thing. The other thing as well was that it was only when in that kind of moment of letting go and having nothing, detaching from certain relationships for me, certain toxic relationships and recognizing and having the bravery to go solo.

It was then I was when I was able to identify.

Elliot (19:13.07)
And that's no mean feat. That's not something to be brushed over. That's a huge thing.

Geri Carey (19:18.156)
Massive. Yeah, that's a...

Elliot (19:20.982)
Yeah. And do you think also your own identity comes into that? So there is a part of the older version of you that you believed that you were, that you held onto so tightly, yet it was the source of discomfort and or discomfort and anxiety. That at some point you go, shit, that's not actually me. This is the reason why I feel this way.

Geri Carey (19:44.748)
Yeah, and I'm clear now on those different parts that person wouldn't have let me even, and I say again, dare to dream at university, wouldn't have even been a thought that I could have gone to a place like that or that people would listen to me.

and I think with not with taking away, I'm going to be really straight with you now, it was the people actually, it was with taking away and putting myself in an environment, I literally cocooned myself and thought about what I wanted and what I needed and that was how I was able to, yeah I did, yeah. Yeah.

Elliot (20:19.702)
You immersed yourself in this, didn't you?

Elliot (20:27.222)
So how would you, so if you think about some of the listeners that, or YouTube watchers, audience, there you go, that's that big word I was looking for. You think about the audience that are gonna be listening and watching, out of the modalities that you know about, how would you explain classically trained to somebody?

Geri Carey (20:35.949)
Yes.

Geri Carey (20:50.256)
That's another good question.

Elliot (20:52.893)
Sorry.

Geri Carey (20:54.72)
It's all right. It's about, I always have two things going on because it can sound so much more simple and I'm like you, I have feelings so classically trained for me. Person Centred is about relationship, it's about building trust.

It's about the client sitting, sorry, the counsellor, it's about me sitting alongside the client, not getting in the client's way and sitting with them. Love the metaphor of being on a train, as passengers, looking out the window, seeing different things, but just sitting alongside, not directing the client, which often can feel...

Elliot (21:40.243)
Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Classically trained is a non-directive therapy. And I often, even with family and friends, just explaining that is a big concept because they can't quite get the give-get value of that opportunity to work with somebody.

Geri Carey (22:00.176)
No, and I integrate some positive psychology coaching, which is super interesting. It's a very interesting concept, but the initial sessions and those, yeah, trying to explain that, you're holding the mirror up for the client to see themselves, you're listening. And with the awareness, with helping them, you're kind of putting that

helping them to put their own safe foundations in place. I think it's about explaining to the client, well, I could give you five top tips to do this, but they're only my view. And actually, what is it about you? So for me, it then, again, here we go, another one in the springboard, but it becomes about that self-worth. It becomes about the awareness of, do they know who they are? And it's...

Elliot (22:56.319)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (22:58.197)
providing the space in the middle between who they are and who they want to be what's getting in the way and that's only then that can find that

Elliot (23:08.382)
Yeah. I think that resonates with me because I think the, I have clients that may, just as an example, may come to me and say, not sure I need counseling, or they might say, I don't know how this is gonna help. And then when I explain my modality, because I'm only classically trained and I've got questions about your other modalities and qualification, because I'm fascinated. And I think this segues nicely into that. But essentially,

Geri Carey (23:19.912)
Mm.

Elliot (23:37.878)
the classically trained, being non-directive, we don't tell the clients what to do. That's a big concept. And then when I talk to family, friends, and even other clients and say, I'm also never gonna ask you a question. And that concept is lost so often. How do you work without asking a question? Well, we're having a relationship exactly to your point. And you summed it up lovely. We have a relationship and it's a, it's

Geri Carey (23:44.301)
Mm.

Geri Carey (23:54.689)
Yes.

Elliot (24:05.706)
an accepting relationship, it's an empathic relationship, it's a congruent relationship. I'm okay not being okay. And then we can uncover things. The beauty I think for me is seeing someone evolve into this new version of them, not recognizing how they got there. And it's, you know, the reason for the name of the show, Paradox of Change, Carl Rogers, when we accept ourselves as we are, the curious paradoxes that we then change. So this all about that acceptance is kind of inspired.

Geri Carey (24:21.56)
Hmm

Geri Carey (24:29.38)
I love it.

Elliot (24:36.354)
exactly, you know, between Fee and Lottie and myself in this show, this is what started it. It was that reference in one of my pieces of coursework that I just kept on coming back to, just I didn't realize how powerful it was, exactly to your point, when you just hold the mirror up, don't underestimate the value of that mirror.

Geri Carey (24:56.921)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (25:00.795)
Definitely. Yeah. And yeah.

Elliot (25:02.698)
So, so as far as your... Go on, go ahead.

Geri Carey (25:07.688)
No, no, that's it. Just all the, all the yeses to that. And I always, well, we friends, you know, you see people just having that space to unpack is magical because you watch it. We see it every day. If only we let, if only we stop and listen so everybody can be a little bit person-centered. That's, you know, that's one of my...

passion projects, but I think we can all be a little bit more person-centred. And, and it will, you know, so yeah, I think.

Elliot (25:33.89)
Do you?

Elliot (25:38.919)
Do you think person-centered actually, so I'm going to say, just do you think person-centered has changed you enough that it's infiltrated how you interact with family and your children?

Geri Carey (25:51.728)
100%.

Elliot (25:55.05)
Yeah. And how do you think that's benefited the family?

Geri Carey (25:55.052)
Yeah, it's changed my life.

Elliot (26:05.853)
That was telling.

Geri Carey (26:09.862)
Well, initially when I did my research project, which was on authenticity about myself, you know, so I had six months of going off walking in the woods and collecting artefacts and making sense of them. I think they all thought I'd absolutely lost the plot. And then, you know, through

self-searching and you know, I mean, my husband, he absolutely is amazing. But I think that it's my self-awareness. So how's it benefited them? I'm more forgiving to myself and I'm more, I can auto, you know, I can, and I can see them and, and I hold back and I can clock my own crap and just think, and it's just made me.

I think I just, you just appreciate just how unique each person is. Um, yeah, that sounds really fluffy.

Elliot (27:08.65)
No, I don't think it does because I just think about, you know, I've got two little boys, well, I've got three boys in total, but two of them, you know, predominantly live with me and to provide an environment where I know that their growth is in my acceptance of them and leading the way, you know, from a man, male perspective, a masculine perspective, I think there's, there's some value in helping them uncover who they are.

challenge them, but I think the person-centred bit, being okay with any of their emotions, and I say this to my kids often, all feelings are acceptable, all behaviors are not, and that defining moment, that comment, is something that we kind of live our lives by. So I think I wouldn't be as capable, and I wouldn't be as, I hope, a good daddy.

Geri Carey (27:55.225)
Yes.

Geri Carey (28:03.898)
Mmm.

Elliot (28:08.118)
without recognising that it's my own self-awareness, which then will hopefully, fingers crossed, infiltrate my boys.

Geri Carey (28:08.377)
We love you.

Geri Carey (28:15.568)
Totally, oh yeah, that's lovely, that's so nice. And yeah, we're really similar. And I think it's made parenting a lot easier because their home here is where they can be themselves. I'm really conscious of the school system and that having to do the best, that I'm not gonna get into that whole thing, but I get.

Elliot (28:27.58)
Ugh, 100%

Geri Carey (28:40.42)
they just can't always be themselves in school, in relationships. So for me, it starts with the environment actually, and it's that whole kind of Brene Brown parent manifesto that brings tears to my eyes. She wrote a beautiful thing, and it's about you are accepted here in this house, but what person-centered allows, I'm gonna give you a real life example, is it happened this morning with my son, but I think he said something, and I had a bit of a reaction to...

to him sharing something with a friend. And not a bad one, but I was able to then go back and say, hey, you know what, actually that was me just having a bit of a reaction to just thinking about you. And actually, you know, I can appreciate. And we had the conversation and it can just be done quite organically, but I'm not, I'm more able to make mistakes and be forgiving for myself. Cause I do, you know, it's that itself compassion as well.

but it's the environment, it's him. We've got that trust between us, we've got that relationship. So our home is where the foundations are. They can be themselves and yeah, giving them that safe place to gravitate back to. I'm almost trying to replicate what I've built inside of myself. I think you need that, yeah.

Elliot (29:59.245)
Oh that's lovely. Yeah.

Geri Carey (30:03.264)
I found that during my research, I called it my owl, because when I was researching and when I was writing, I noticed that I would finish sentences with, oh, it's okay, you've done this and try that. And I went back, went back years and it was there all the time and I never seen it.

Elliot (30:26.23)
almost dismissive of positive change or aspirations.

Geri Carey (30:30.728)
no sorry as in as in this real positive force that just sat inside of me that I didn't realize was there almost like a mother.

Elliot (30:38.478)
Ah, yeah. It's ingrained, it's always been there.

Geri Carey (30:42.756)
It's always been there.

Elliot (30:45.934)
So I know that it sounds like we both have the client-centred, person-centred coursing through our veins. We can't always be that, but I think it holds us accountable for our feelings. So we're not projecting onto the people around us. We say, this is my shit, I know this, and then you can be responsible and accountable for however you behave thereafter. Now, so when we talk about client-centred, which is, you know, I've been,

Geri Carey (30:56.174)
Yeah.

Elliot (31:15.894)
I've been practicing now, starting in 2012. So it's 12 years I've been a therapist, worked for the NHS, worked with young people, adults, still working now. I've got a few international clients that I do evening work with. Absolutely love it. So it courses through my veins. Here's the however, and this is the bit that, I need your education here. So what is a therapeutic coach and how?

Geri Carey (31:37.449)
Oh. Ha ha ha.

Elliot (31:45.47)
Sorry to throw you in the deep end, but what is a therapeutic coach and how do Do you segregate that from client centered or is that amalgamated and if so, how the hell have you done it?

Geri Carey (32:00.757)
Right, so I guess, so I guess, just trying to think the best way. So I think for me, just to take you back a step, I think because of my background, so I have always kind of, I've coached for years, absolutely years and years and years and years. So it was something I think that was just there. I think with the, with.

obviously the classically trained, you learn to leave all that at the door. So it kind of kept coming back to me. And my last assignment was a podcast on, and I started to look into it. So I can't, I mean, I've got some really interesting parts actually from where Roger's calls actually says, it uses the term coach interchangeably at the very end of his work. So I think he was getting there. Definitely the later part of it, the later part of his work.

Elliot (32:30.475)
Yeah.

Elliot (32:52.31)
Oh, I'm s- Okay, we need a part two to this podcast.

Geri Carey (32:56.192)
Yeah, we definitely there's loads of interesting stuff on this. So it gave me a lot of, oh, yes, I just felt like I had a bit of a green light, if that makes sense. Now, a therapeutic code.

Elliot (33:06.37)
Do you think that almost gave you an opportunity, knowing that Rogers said about, um, you know, he mentioned, sorry, I'm probably jumping to the point you're trying to make, but a little light bulb moment for myself. If you think about Rogers, then with, you know, started working back in the 1950s and right through to late seventies, I think it was, and if he's talking about the, the elements of coaching at the end, doesn't that kind of give you a bit of a green light to go? I'm not quite, um,

Geri Carey (33:14.517)
No, no, go for it.

Geri Carey (33:26.415)
Mm.

Elliot (33:35.254)
so constrained?

Geri Carey (33:37.58)
Yeah, yeah, it does. I feel like it's the whole like baton, you know, and we was very close, wasn't it, to Maslow? It's just that obviously, but his theory of, what would you call it, directionality, you know, that's it, that's what I hold on to. That is that, you know, we're all got the tendency to push forward and I think sometimes coaching, that's where it kind of fits in.

Elliot (34:04.654)
So how does therapeutic coaching work?

Geri Carey (34:04.98)
So.

Geri Carey (34:08.932)
Oh, so well, to answer your question. So I guess it's not widely recognized because it's still, we're still looking at it as a kind of role. Interestingly enough, I spoke to, and I am looking to get more involved with the BACP on this. I contacted them to ask them the question.

because I've had lots of people reach out to me who had a really good chat with a guy last week who'd been, who is sorry, a therapist and he just, I think he feels he just wants to add a little bit more.

or he's getting a little bit, I'm gonna just say it, bored really. I think he's 30, 40 years into practice and he's like, oh, okay, so is there anything else? So the thought of being able to offer a little bit of, coaching in a non-directive way was really appealing to him. And actually it was appealing to a lot of people because I then did a webinar, I just felt a hunch and I thought, oh, sod it, I'll do it. And 20 people arrived and they were like, so yeah.

The, what's important to note is that it isn't, you know, the title, therapeutic coach to me, is where you can use both approaches interchangeably. But I guess what's really, really sensitive and that's okay is that coaches, you know, we don't wanna be giving the green light, so to speak. We don't want that in terms of.

people providing therapy solutions. And I know that therapists, and this is just, from my communications are very hesitant because we've worked hard for this and we don't want coaches taking our jobs. And it's seen as coaches seem to be a bit more, I don't know, maverick. I'm just saying this is my whole view. Not saying it's right or wrong, but that. So it's a very interesting concept, but my.

Elliot (36:02.056)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (36:16.664)
best friend who's an ex-client 15 years ago is a coach, a transformational coach. So we, and she's so person-centered, I'm always saying to her, you're definitely gonna be, you know, and it's crackers. So sorry, it's a long-winded answer. So in short,

At the moment, from just looking at it from the BACP point, it's work in progress in terms of how we link those practices together. It's recognized that I think there is an interest for people to incorporate coaching in their practice and people are doing it. So I think my view is like this, I think people are doing it anyway, so let's get together. Let's have a conversation about it. Let's use the ethical.

Elliot (36:52.734)
Yeah.

Elliot (37:06.25)
Don't inhibit growth, hey.

Geri Carey (37:08.292)
don't inhibit growth, let's use the framework because that's what we can do. We can use the framework and we can use the competences from the most recognized bodies in the coaching industry, but let's face it, it's not regulated. You know, there's no scopes and things, but here's where it is. So it's about, I guess for me, using both is for me, how it's worked is I tend to start off with the person-centered

Elliot (37:22.123)
No.

Geri Carey (37:38.996)
therapy if it's, obviously if it's needed. And then, you know, there is, again, there's lots and lots of research around. When you're sitting with a client, and this is what I found, and you know that you've got a bit of information or something that you know will help them, to keep that to yourself is sometimes, you know, it's that grapple, I think.

And I think as therapists...

Elliot (38:07.566)
Well, that was kind of the whole purpose of supervision, isn't it? You know, when you take those as a classically trained, we are not telling the clients what we're taught to do. We are not asking them questions. We're not directing them down a path that we believe, you know, their authenticity, them figuring out what they should be doing. And I always use this analogy and I think it's important. If the client thinks, I figured this out, the psychological shift is huge.

Geri Carey (38:33.337)
Yes.

Elliot (38:37.434)
So to your point, if you're holding onto something and if you've built the relationship up enough, and that's a really important word, enough, there must come a point where you think, there's a gem here because I trust the relationship and I'm allowed to be, in my authenticity, I'm allowed to be wrong as well. So I can deliver this and say, I have a hunch, I've got a feeling, are we, you're nodding.

Geri Carey (39:00.244)
Oh.

Geri Carey (39:06.828)
Yeah, can you hear, is it okay, the signal? 100%, so, and I always say, am I acting with integrity? And a million, you know.

Elliot (39:09.535)
Yeah, yeah.

Elliot (39:20.305)
Mm-hmm.

Geri Carey (39:22.848)
that's it, you know, it's always with the client's best interest at heart, but understanding and having that therapeutic, you know, training that allows us to consider those power dynamics, consider what am I getting out of it? What's going on here? The wider...

the wider picture and offering solutions to encourage the client autonomy. So, hey, there's a few things here I'm feeling that might help you. How does this sound? How does that sound? So you're still letting them connect those dots.

Elliot (40:01.706)
I like that. And actually, the more I think about it, I've actually, I have a client historically that we, in the essence of client centered. So I've never asked a question, never tell him what to do. He's worked with me for a number of months. We're getting on, the relationship is growing. The trust is the foundation.

The authenticity is the foundation and he's finding those elements within himself. But one of the things that we have noticed both him and I, which is, I guess, the integrity of the relationship, the connection that we have is that we roleplay. So as a man finding his feet and being able to be comfortable in his role, in his power dynamic with family, friends.

and his growth, language is his problem because he hasn't had the opportunity to find simple terminology, just simple ways of explaining himself that essentially asserts a boundary without having to tell someone this is my boundary. So we've been going back and forth about language. And I've sometimes had to sit with myself thinking

Geri Carey (41:04.688)
Mmm.

Geri Carey (41:26.129)
Mmm.

Elliot (41:30.854)
Am I coaching him or are we playing out the content? Am I giving him just little subtleties in the way he frames how he wants to assert a boundary? Because we're talking about exactly the same thing but I'm just doing it from a more articulate background. Is this helping? And it's clear that it's working but we made a bit of a joke about it. I shouldn't really be doing this but it sounds like you're trying to say that.

Geri Carey (41:42.)
Hmm

Elliot (41:57.898)
And it feels like these words would be more in keeping with, you know, your character and your genuineness. And I just get a lot of nods.

Geri Carey (42:03.833)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (42:07.523)
Ugh.

You know, I'm thinking there that I think that's wonderful. And I just wonder how much of yourself you hold back at that point when it's not about that, you know, I know. Yeah, it's not about that.

yeah, like you say, the coaching, it's almost like we're afraid to give advice or we're afraid to ask a question. And that's the part I'm letting go of because I think that, you know, there's a time and a place and I think, and if you've got that background, then you are totally aware of the impact of the direct questions. But you know, just to sort of go for another slant with another angle on that.

Elliot (42:45.291)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (42:56.828)
I talk about a first self compassion from Dr. Kristin Neff and it lands well with lots of clients. So I think what I do is psych education really, it is coaching, but in psych education they don't get printouts. They don't have to come back and tell me what they've done the next week, the session, none of that. So I would say what the difference might be if I had that client and whatever, or, you know, is that

Elliot (43:08.326)
Mm.

Elliot (43:13.351)
There's no homework.

Geri Carey (43:25.156)
the talking about fear, self-compassion, and the resource, that inner resource of that kind of mama bear that helps to talk about all parts work where you can really identify that part of you that's that protector part because Rogers also talks about all parts welcome.

So these all link together, these theories. And so all parts welcoming to me says that he was aware we had various parts. And yet we can work with the clients to kind of identify what they, what they are. Is that coaching? Is that therapy? You know, I think it's still therapy.

Elliot (43:46.22)
Yeah.

Elliot (44:04.458)
Yeah, no, I like it. And that makes a lot of sense. And you know, it's something very odd to just happen to me then just in the essence of being completely transparent. I just remembered back to 10 years ago, 12 years ago, when I was in, um, at college and university doing this course. And I remember reading and I don't know which Carl Rogers book it is, but there was a, there is an example of him in a, um, at home.

Geri Carey (44:13.88)
Hmm.

Elliot (44:33.834)
And there are a bunch of kids at one o'clock in the morning, just doing damage to a car outside his home. They've got nothing else to do. And I think he talks about how most individuals might start screaming and shouting at the kids, these delinquents and giving them a hard time, telling them to sod off. But what he does is goes out and in true Carl Rogers empathic way, asks them how they are. What are they doing?

Geri Carey (44:41.796)
Mm.

Geri Carey (44:55.004)
Mm.

Geri Carey (45:02.644)
Yeah.

Elliot (45:02.774)
How do they feel? And it's a much longer segment to the book, but essentially that acceptance of these young people that were bored, that were, they didn't have good role models in their lives, all came out while, you know, I think there's about five, six of these kids and they all talked with Rogers for an hour. And I think the crux of this, and there is a reason why I'm saying this,

Geri Carey (45:09.057)
Yeah.

Elliot (45:31.51)
The crux of that is it was either the next day or the following weekend, leaves had been raked up in his garden or something like that. These kids had come around, respected Carl and just did some good things because they'd been accepted, heard and valued. I wonder, certainly with social media where we are social media, the algorithms and how

Geri Carey (45:40.126)
Oh, wow.

Geri Carey (45:43.759)
Mm.

Geri Carey (45:51.174)
Mm.

Elliot (46:00.81)
I guess the gender wars, how everyone is so, so judgmental. I think we could all learn a little bit of client centered in how everyone is. If you're a misogynistic man, okay, he's a misogynistic man. He's still a good man. It's just his character. Okay. So you're, you're this lady and you do that. Just accept it. You know, and I think if we, if we had that opportunity to be more person

Geri Carey (46:18.138)
Mm. Yeah.

Elliot (46:30.214)
I think it really would make a positive shift. Now, you would... You do. Yeah. And I think you're starting at home, aren't you, with your family.

Geri Carey (46:36.321)
I totally agree. Yeah, I...

Geri Carey (46:44.088)
You start home with your family, yeah, you water your own grass or whatnot, I don't know. Yeah, you, yeah, and yourself. It's yourself, isn't it? It's that, it's the, I think it's that, yeah. And I think as well, I've been trying. So when I first started to read about Rogers and everything, I...

I just felt this insatiable need to share, which was a bit odd. And it still goes on. And I've again, grappled with that like, okay, well, whatever. And again, the research that I did just continued.

to carry on. I would go into lessons, my peers will tell you, and I've been writing notes every time I was learning new things. I'd be like, people need to hear this, people need to hear this.

Elliot (47:40.529)
I've got a responsibility, I can't unknow this now.

Geri Carey (47:43.776)
Yeah, and it sounds like a shameless plug and I promise you it's not because, but that's where and why I started to write my book is to get all that out because I just, the same as you, I just feel that it is a way of being. And when you look at the last bit of looking down here, because my book's here, the last part of his way of being and his hopes for the human race, he...

he lists what he would see as some of the qualities of a person that would be fully functioning. And I've looked at them and I've kind of broken them down into what that actually looks like. So yeah, I think it's really interesting how he kind of leaves us with that set of instructions which actually, come on, I mean, that's not person-centered, but it is.

Elliot (48:39.542)
Yeah. And do you know what you've just, you just reminded me of something, you know, uh, Jordan Peterson, we went to go and see, um, Lottie and me when, uh, to see him back in October at, um, in London at the O2 and it was, it, uh, the event is called the arc and I sent, and I didn't know anything about it. I just thought Jordan Peterson, I'm sold. Let's go and, let's go and have a listen to what he's got to say. I did come out of the event with a bit of a headache because it's, uh, he's

Geri Carey (48:41.006)
Is.

Geri Carey (48:58.756)
Hmm.

Geri Carey (49:07.577)
Yeah.

Elliot (49:07.922)
His academic speech is a lot to unpick, but essentially to you, what you just said a few moments ago, which is what reminded me about watering your own garden. That's exactly what Jordan Peterson is saying. So the arc, which is the association of a responsible citizenship. Effectively, we've got to look after ourselves, you know, whether it's in his terms and words, go and tidy your room. You know,

Geri Carey (49:14.235)
Mm.

Elliot (49:35.362)
make sure that your family's okay. You have a responsibility to be the best person that you can be period and everything else will fall into place if you do so. And I think that message is again very Rogers in my view.

Geri Carey (49:35.439)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (49:52.788)
It's completely Rogers. I have developed, don't know where this will go, but I called it the self-led life. And that is exactly what it is. And it's about, you know, leading yourself. And I start with talking about...

Elliot (50:04.181)
Okay.

Geri Carey (50:13.82)
looking at who you are today. And I'm quite open with some of the concepts, so conditions of worth, frames of reference, cultural, you know, think, considerations. So looking at exactly who you are and what has made you into that person, so that then you can start to be, you can access the actualizing tendency. So the, you know,

Elliot (50:39.51)
Lovely.

Geri Carey (50:43.124)
Is that directive, is it not? Is it coaching, is it not? But you're helping someone to take them layers off, you know, so they can feel that and they can get to that. So the self-led life, I think is about for me exactly that. I should contact Jordan Peterson. No, it's exactly that. Yeah, it's about taking responsibility, understanding where your self-worth is gonna stop you in your tracks.

Elliot (51:02.158)
We'll do it together, don't worry.

Geri Carey (51:13.048)
you know, having emotional intelligence. So how is this person receiving me when I'm talking to them? Am I seeing them? Can I, and I encourage to use sort of therapy tool, toolbox, tool tips or whatever. So really, you know, clocking your own thoughts whilst doing conversations, knowing what your triggers are and not being embarrassed to look into them. We all have reactions when we're talking to people, but it's that.

what's going on. So yeah, sorry, let me up then because that's what the book turned into was this whole, you know, a self-led life and what that means. And I have basically broken down what Rod just said and made it into a way of living.

Elliot (51:56.75)
And I guess time has changed, hasn't it? Rogers back in the 50s, we've got people like Jordan Peterson amongst many others that are trying to help, it sounds a bit cliche, but they are trying to help everyone. This is a, I think he's got a bit of a global effort to try and improve people's lives. Now your book, we had a chat a few weeks ago and I haven't mentioned the colourful title because I don't know if you've chosen the...

Geri Carey (52:11.917)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Geri Carey (52:23.253)
No, no.

Elliot (52:26.946)
So you talked a bit about your book, give me a little bit of insight into your book.

Geri Carey (52:27.081)
No.

Geri Carey (52:31.232)
Oh, that's it basically. It's about, it was a passion project that just flowed through the, I finished research. It just kept going. I was making notes along the way from university of all my, you know, you say about light bulb moments, all of those. And I've just, I piled it together because what I started to notice, especially from not being from an academic background or.

you know, just having access to lots of different people that I would talk about conditions or whatever, and people wouldn't perhaps recognize that they were a real thing and what conditions were. So it's not an easy read. My friend, Charlotte, has done great beta reading, and she's like, wow, you know, and it's not something, you know, you're not gonna be reading that before bed. You know, it comes with a real big book companion.

Elliot (53:07.053)
Yes.

Geri Carey (53:25.664)
And it's for anybody that wants to learn more about the conditions and the impact of our first early years in life, our first 1,001 days, they call it, don't they? Like, you know, the attachment and how that feeds into who we are today. Because I guess I say, a bit like a sat nav, you need to know who you are, where you are, in order to decide where you're gonna get going. And that's where the coaching comes in because...

Elliot (53:44.382)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (53:55.372)
We sometimes will try and set goals, but they're based on the person that we think we are that's been shaped perhaps by more people than us, our parents, our caregivers. So it's unpicking. Yeah, and it has got a colorful title because I want to appeal to everybody, young people, old people.

Elliot (54:06.35)
Yeah, you are so right. Yeah.

Geri Carey (54:19.128)
Swery titles seem to be the thing, you know, people, exactly, people. So the self-led life is like a set, yeah. Sorry, go on.

Elliot (54:19.638)
people.

Elliot (54:25.782)
Yep. And I think that you've just, you've just, yeah, you've just, you've said something that really resonates with me, you know, the whole, you know, uh, oh, we need to find our market. No, you know, everyone needs to be treated with respect. Everyone needs to treat themselves with respect. It doesn't matter. Yeah. We can't encourage ill-equipped poor self image and self worth.

external validation. We can't support that, which is going on at a global level. And you mentioned schools earlier, which I think is probably another subject that we should bring up in another episode. But I think essentially if we can just keep respecting and being empathic to other people's beliefs, it's the whole curious paradox, isn't it? That people do actually change.

Geri Carey (54:58.792)
100%.

Geri Carey (55:02.468)
Definitely.

Geri Carey (55:19.472)
Totally.

Elliot (55:21.59)
And it's just a different way of thinking. And I guess your book is celebrating everything that you've learned over the course of years, your own journey. And then I can hear your excitement. This is like, why don't people know about this? How did, how, because self-awareness and you know, when I hear people saying, oh, you know, you've got to love yourself. And then I, my interpretation of how that might come across is quite narcissistic instead of.

Geri Carey (55:23.192)
They do.

Geri Carey (55:35.353)
Yes.

Elliot (55:49.114)
Self-worth and self-love and empathy for others and yourself is a long old journey. And you can't just relish in immediate gratification and external validation. And for me, the reason why I stay in this role and this job is because I have the opportunity to meet individuals on a weekly basis and I have an impact. Like you, I'm not academic, so writing a book is going to be a bit of a challenge.

So I'm fast tracking to podcasts. So working with people like yourself as well, I see this as just an absolute blessing, if I'm honest, if I'm straight with you.

Geri Carey (56:29.548)
Oh, yeah, and you, I can feel your passion. And I think, yeah, it's that, isn't it? And I think, so if I was restricted by my conditions, like, no, I wouldn't even have tried to do any of this because, and I think it's that for me, it's that kind of, when I learned in a person-centered setting that there were things that had led to my...

self-concept thinking behind the thinking. If I knew earlier on that actually...

It just all made sense that some of the things that I had been told that I was just didn't feel who I was and that was that led to that cracking point really but I think yeah so it's it I think it's really important that because for me I felt free I thought oh right you know there's a reason for me feeling so rubbish.

Elliot (57:15.466)
Yeah.

Elliot (57:28.614)
Yeah, and it can be, and if we don't have a spark of inspiration or we don't fall apart, we stay the same. And that is absolutely terrifying when I think of close friends, family, other clients that I've met, that the opportunity to stay as they were is frightening.

Geri Carey (57:47.076)
Bye.

Elliot (57:54.498)
And it goes for me as well. You know, I remember what I was like when I was a young man. So that's the reason why I'm doing this. And it sounds like you've got some similar aspirations to, there's so much growth in this journey and how could you not share it? I do have a, go on, what were you thinking?

Geri Carey (57:54.988)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (58:15.928)
No, I just, because the beauty of it is, Elliot, we can change our life in a second because we're only as good as the last bad thought we had about ourself. We are only as bad because that's it, that's it. And the second, yeah, that's it. And the set and that whatever you like, you know, I say to clients think back to that last thought, that's where you are, that's your benchmark. And also, you know, people.

Elliot (58:26.698)
Oh, that's a good one. I'm writing that one down. That's mine now.

Geri Carey (58:44.108)
I was just gonna say, sorry, people that have goals and aspirations, this is definitely another episode we need to be looking at. And I've got loads that I'd love to share with you about therapeutic goals and how we can do that in a non-directive way aligned with our values. It's very person-centered, looking at what extrinsic goals are, making sure that we can get access to the goals that are actually from our heart. And that is, again, that...

that education, that psych education does give people the permission and a little bit of structure, but to start looking at their own values and what truly lights them up. But like you said, how do you find those hunches? How do you find those things if everything's just packed on top of you and you don't have access to yourself?

Elliot (59:37.43)
it's the organismic self and this will make you chuckle. At when I was at college, I called it my orgasmic self in a presentation, true dyslexic, you know, Freudian slip. Don't say it, don't say it, don't say it. Ah, shit.

Geri Carey (59:45.35)
Oh.

Geri Carey (59:53.94)
I said it. Yeah. What is it? The orgasmic valuing process or whatever. Yeah. Sounds exciting if you're an expert in that.

Elliot (01:00:01.37)
That's a completely different episode. Let's not go down that road. Listen, I was just thinking about drawing to a close and there's kind of two things that I was gonna ask you. Us as therapists, we're only human at the end of the day and we might have our ways of looking after our own mental health. And the POC is about inspiring people to talk. And even if it's a case of...

Geri Carey (01:00:04.492)
Hehehe

Elliot (01:00:29.366)
the more therapists, entrepreneurs and clients that we reach out to and record these sessions, we might be, hopefully, and this is a fingers crossed, this is kind of the goal, is to be a bit of a conduit to connect people to the right people. So just remind me, your location, I know you do it online, but where are you based again?

Geri Carey (01:00:48.26)
Hmm

Geri Carey (01:00:54.749)
I'm based in Staffordshire.

Elliot (01:00:56.862)
Okay. So one of the things I was going to say to you, uh, you know, make sure that we've got your details, web link, and we'll put this into the, um, into the promotion side. So, uh, I've got a marketing lady that looks after everything that we need to do for, um, POC and make the best of the opportunity that we've made today. And I, I'm so excited and hope that you'd like to do a few more of these. I think we've got some common ground to discuss, but, uh, when we, when we think about

Geri Carey (01:01:21.52)
I love to.

We have.

Elliot (01:01:26.466)
you know, the inspiring people to talk and feeling brave, and maybe they're looking at therapy for the first time, or they're wondering what it's all about. What advice would you give to somebody that's thinking about going down that therapeutic process? From a client's perspective.

Geri Carey (01:01:43.268)
from a client's perspective.

I would say, you know, you wouldn't really, you don't have anything to lose and a lot to gain. I think it's quite nice to have a space that's just about you, all about you and have somebody sit alongside you. And you know, you can just unapologetically explore what is going on for you. It doesn't, you know, and at any time, you can pull the cord if it's not for you. You know, I don't see how you could come out.

I come out of a session feeling, you know, worse off, if that makes sense. But even if you go in with the attitude, if you're a bit cautious of therapy, um, you know, like I would say to my clients, I mean, you know, you've got the image in your head of a typical therapist, then, you know, brings the session, start with your expectations. What, you know, what's going to work for you and, you know, and what, it's a two sided process. Basically it's not, yeah, it's about, and it's about you. Hmm.

Elliot (01:02:42.666)
So is. Yeah. What do you, what do you do for your mental health? How do you look after you? I, as you're human like me, what, uh, what do you to keep, what do you do to keep you in check?

Geri Carey (01:02:57.036)
It's really ongoing and it changes. It changes. So I regularly update what I view as self care. So today I'm starting to do the couch to 5K because I want to try and strengthen my mindset. Um, but I will unapologize. Yeah. Um, I, I love having a bit of a nap in the day, a reset. Um.

Elliot (01:02:59.96)
Mm-hmm.

Elliot (01:03:13.694)
Yeah. I know a few people that are doing that.

Elliot (01:03:22.486)
You forgiven? So do I.

Geri Carey (01:03:26.932)
And you know what, we've just, whether this is self care or whatever, but I, I self care is actually being a little bit, um, just leaning it. Like I say, we're really at the moment looking at how to build our connection as a family, cause things are starting to get a bit busier. Um, so we're just, um, looking at ways we can continue to utilize the weekends and things like that, but I love dog walking. I love being outdoors. All the cliches. My, my, again, my dog is the most person-centered.

Elliot (01:03:50.327)
Oh nice.

Geri Carey (01:03:56.926)
of thing that ever walked the planet, my spaniel. And yeah, I think I've yeah.

Elliot (01:04:01.282)
Where is pet therapy, isn't there? Where they, where, where therapists take dogs into residential care homes. And there's, um, there is scientific evidence to prove that, uh, it increases, um, the capabilities of Alzheimer patients and things just by stroking a dog. It actually releases the endorphins that we need to feel alive and, and grow.

Geri Carey (01:04:09.2)
I'd love to do that. Yeah!

Geri Carey (01:04:29.424)
It's really, yeah, that is, and it so works, but I think, you know what, another bit of self care as well is just keeping a check of your, as I would call it, your growth circle, and just making sure that you're checking in with yourself. Hmm.

Elliot (01:04:43.178)
Meaning the people around you. So you gravitate towards people that are either, they have their own expectations and values and they kind of help you lift your glass ceiling almost.

Geri Carey (01:05:00.7)
Yeah, but also that I help them to do that for themselves as well. So small selection of people that are harvested and you know, and there's a real common, you know, commonality between us that that's it. It's about that two-sided. So I don't, I don't, I'm continually looking how to cultivate that.

Elliot (01:05:05.166)
Uh...

Geri Carey (01:05:23.544)
and change it because we're not always, it's okay to have friendships that are outdated, but that growth circle for me is really important.

Elliot (01:05:33.898)
Yeah. Can you still hear me?

Geri Carey (01:05:37.024)
I can, it says my internal temperature's high. Probably about right. Ha ha ha.

Elliot (01:05:43.888)
Ah, hold on a second.

This might have to be an edit. I think one of the cameras has got a bit hot. There you go. We'll do the edit on that bit. Final question, or at least kind of a leaving question. So I was talking about, you know, paradox of change, inspiring people to talk. Out of the people that you value, trust and respect, who would you call at 3 a.m. if you needed to and why?

Geri Carey (01:05:50.508)
Alright. That right?

Yeah.

Geri Carey (01:06:13.996)
Oh, that's a really good question. Well, I wouldn't be ringing far because it would definitely be my husband. So, but yeah, he's my best friend and.

Elliot (01:06:22.062)
Oh.

Geri Carey (01:06:28.216)
he, without even having any training in what we've, you know, person-centered, he really, I think him, yeah, him seeing me has allowed me to see myself. And so he's that, he's my ride or die. And I have some very close friends as well, one of which is Jill, my best friend Jill. And, you know, she would also be, again, it's about those relationships that are mutual, it's that mutual thing we've got going on.

Elliot (01:06:57.482)
Yeah. Important people around you.

Elliot (01:07:09.326)
we've got technical issues. Jerry, can you hear me?

Geri Carey (01:07:11.992)
That's all right. I can.

Elliot (01:07:15.654)
Listen, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate your time and dropping in. I'd certainly feel like that we have got not just a lot in common, but potentially quite a lot to talk about. And if we want to bring some value with our experience, I think there could be a few additional episodes. Thank you so much for joining us today. And hopefully we'll have an opportunity to work with each other again.

Geri Carey (01:07:29.49)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (01:07:42.3)
love to and thank you for the opportunity as well. Thank you.

Elliot (01:07:46.23)
Oh, pleasure. All right, Jerry. Well, listen, just while I think of it, I'll edit this bit out. Don't worry. My camera has overheated. I think that's a natural end. Thank you. This was awesome. I really enjoyed this. It's just, it's meant the world to me because I've been waiting to speak with another classically trained client-centred therapist. And it's just lovely to hear.

Geri Carey (01:07:49.488)
Bye.

Geri Carey (01:07:55.468)
Yes.

Elliot (01:08:15.914)
You know, you've trained in a different location. We've got our qualifications at different times, but the essence of client centered doesn't seem to have got lost, which I think is important.

Geri Carey (01:08:28.384)
Never, no, definitely not. It underpins everything I do. And I think, you know, it definitely, definitely does. And it is, it's brilliant to meet another person. It's just sometimes, you know, so hard when we give ourselves a hard time for asking questions and things, but because, you know.

Elliot (01:08:30.157)
No.

Geri Carey (01:08:45.888)
I can tell just from talking to you, you've got that integrity. So I don't know. Sometimes it's that I think, I think there's loads more we can do. And I'm definitely going to move forward with putting together some sort of qualification for people to incorporate a little bit of non-directive coaching into their practice. I think they're doing it anyway. Honestly, I do think that that's what's happening. Um, anyway.

Elliot (01:08:50.135)
Mm.

Elliot (01:09:06.945)
Yeah.

Elliot (01:09:12.51)
Oh, I'm going to, when I'm editing this, I'm going to be writing a lot of questions. Uh, so I'll let you know when we can do part two, but listen, have a lovely day, have an amazing weekend. And if you need anything, um, I'll let you know, I'll get this edited. You'll have final sign off. Nothing goes alive until you're, you know, a hundred percent. Um, and if you need, um, I'll get it. I'll get all the, so I'll get all the videos converted to

Geri Carey (01:09:21.037)
Oh.

Geri Carey (01:09:31.568)
Oh, thank you.

Elliot (01:09:40.69)
horizontal, square and vertical. So you can use it as much as you need to. And I've got a marketing lady, she's been working on some of the, well, she does all my marketing, I don't do it. Otherwise I wouldn't have the time. But we'll make sure that we've got all your handles and at mentions done as much as possible so you can make use of it as well. And we'll try and guide people to you as much as we can. I've also got a WhatsApp group for our practitioners and guests that have been on the show. Do you...

Geri Carey (01:09:58.474)
Oh, thank you.

Elliot (01:10:10.198)
Would you like me to add you to that? Oh, don't worry. I'm still here. Yeah. Okay. Oh, my pleasure. Right. I'm going to go and blow on my camera to cool it down.

Geri Carey (01:10:13.592)
Yes, please. Yeah, that would be great. Yes, please. Thank you.

Geri Carey (01:10:20.504)
I'd love to get involved in whatever's going on in the future. Yeah, sorry, go on.

Elliot (01:10:26.286)
So I'm just a.

Just wondering if I can turn my camera back on. There's a big red flame on the screen. That's not a good thing, is it?

Geri Carey (01:10:36.712)
Oh dear, well you better get going then. That could be its podcast title in itself, couldn't it? The chat that set you on fire.

Elliot (01:10:44.387)
Yeah, the podcast that caught a light. Exactly. All right, listen, go and have a good weekend with your family. I'm going to now relax for a bit and I'll try and do the editing. I've got another show that I've got to edit first. Once this is done, I'll let you have a look at it and I'll add you to the WhatsApp group as one of our guests. But keep in contact.

Geri Carey (01:11:09.2)
We'll have to meet up but we'll keep in touch because I love what you're doing. I think it's going to be amazing.

Elliot (01:11:15.658)
Oh, thank you. That means a lot. That means a lot. Yeah. I'm facing imposter syndrome at the moment. So there's as much as I'm sure you know exactly what that's like. So there's just a lot of work in the background, but

Geri Carey (01:11:19.053)
Yeah.

Geri Carey (01:11:26.96)
Well, that's because you've been the change maker. You're the first person. The brain goes backwards, not forwards. So it's new. New level, new devil.

Elliot (01:11:34.406)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So true. I like that's another one I'm going to write down. Damn it, you. Right, listen, gonna have a good weekend. I'll talk to you soon. Yeah, absolutely. Anytime. See you soon.

Geri Carey (01:11:43.92)
He wasn't good. Bye.